Pay-2-Play vs FREE-play - Guild Wars Forums

DirtyDirty · Jun 21, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Question answered, TY

Thomas.knbk · Jun 21, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Pay-to-play does have its advantages. Most importantly this:

In a free play system, new content is offered with a pricetag attatched to it. Exeptions are there, like the SF update and PvE skills, but most of the new content (read: new skills) is offered in new chapters of $50.
In a pay-to-play system, you don't need customers to buy a $50 expantion every few months, because your income comes from the monthly fees. New content (skills) are offered in free updates and patches in a pay-to-play system.
Now think of this: in order to play PvP at a high level seriously, you NEED all the skills. Anet's marketing department might state otherwise, but in reality that is the case. You're severely limiting yourself if you don't.
In a pay-to-play system, this means you buy the game for $50 and you have all the skills, and can start playing PvP immediately (exept for some things like unlocks). In the free-play system, the different skills are in different packages. This means to get all the skills, you need to make a starting investment of $150. This is a very big investment for a game you might not even like.

lazyrussian · Jun 21, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Pay to Play also has better customer service

. The auction-spam in the local chat would not have lasted for as long as it did if GW was Pay-To-Play.

Also, different MMORPG's have different thigns that appeal to people. I played everquest (EQ1) briefly in 2002. I liked it alot because their were 10+ races, 10+ classes and literally thousands of spells and the zones were massive - probably not as massive as some of the GW ones. The game was Pay-to-play but it lacked strategy - it became boring quickly. GW has a lot of strategy. Once GW2 comes out with new races - the level of skill and aptitude needed to play a good character (and still have fun) will greatly increase. This is why I like GW - a lot of planning (at higher levels) and a lot of cool combinations of skills.

I mentioned in a different thread that I recently stumbled upon the A/N combination - I don't know if this is popular since I don't see many assassins - but here's a great example of why I like GW.

Fast-Regenerating Mana for Assassins (4 pips)
Health is Decent.
Coupling Necro Hex spells with certain assassin spells (ones thatd o extra damage if the foe is hexed) + having daggers that deal more damage or lengthen bleeding (while the foe is hexed) makes the A/N a very fun, easy-on-the energy character. That's what I mean by combining skills and thinking of strategies. Though that is only on the basic level - but that's where my assassin is at the moment - LVL 11.

Thats just my take on why some people play P2P v. F2P.

lazyrussian · Jun 21, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Lol it's the biggest waste of time for me, but after a full day of work, and enjoying my last *free* summer before my senior year of college, GW hits the pleasure-zone perfectly.

A game is a game is a game. Nothing to take to seriously.

digimonizm · Jun 21, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazyrussian

A game is a game is a game. Nothing to take to seriously.

You don't know how wrong you are

Fist of the Big Dipper Super Battle Opera in Japan

StarCraft in Korea

Super Battle Opera in Japan SF3:Third Strike

DirtyDirty · Jun 21, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by digimonizm

You don't know how wrong you are

Fist of the Big Dipper Super Battle Opera in Japan

StarCraft in Korea

Super Battle Opera in Japan SF3:Third Strike

I just happen to be the local 3S champ. go evo

strcpy · Jun 21, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDirty

Thanks guys. I'm starting to get the idea here. So you need the rare skills in order to compete in the PvP mode. And rare skills cost money; thus players need to build up gold. That's the big picture that I was looking for here. So compared to other games, Guild Wars is designed so that competitive players in the PvP battles work to get strong skills because better skills make better characters. I think I'm starting to like this game a lot more.

No, what was being discussed is that there are four types of skills. First is "core" - these are available in every single campaign. Next is prophecies only - you can only use these skills if you own prophecies. Factions only - you can only use them if you own factions. Lastly Nightfall only - yep, you guessed it, can only use if you own nightfall.

The only things that are rare or hard to get in this game are rare skins - damage, modifiers, runes, inscriptions, all you "stats" are easy to come by. For lower to mid level PvP you do not need *that* many skills unlocked - for high end stuff you do (unlocking takes grind, however still significantly less grind than say, getting a high level toon and gear in WoW). For PvE you need even less as most want cookie cutter builds anyway. For the most part the grind involved to unlock things takes about the same amount of time it takes you to learn your current level of play.

What this means is that you *have* to purchase all the campaigns and expansion if you want the skills (as in real money - from gamestop or other retail store). Now, it can be easily shown that GW is still far cheaper than any other pay-per-month game even if you do not get their expansions (and if you want to compete, you have to purchase theirs also, just because you payed Blizzard a monthly fee didn't make you suddenly get Burning Crusades content for free - they are just much less frequent).

GW is much stronger on the teamwork and strategy end of things than simply getting strong skills. Anything that strong get's "balanced" - even the so called Elite skills aren't always that much better than normal skills (they are elite because they are stronger, allow the character to do something they normally can not, or they combine with a few other skills too strong). For the most part time played will not make you stronger - yes there are unlocks and such, but you can unlock any one skills in about 10 minutes and any elite in about 15 (there are just over 1500 skills so unlocking them *all* takes a long time).

Quote:

GW is a F2P, so are the things that your account collects and accumulates regarded as "less important". In other games that are P2P, because the time you spend is not free, are the things that are within an account seen as "more important" because they came at a price to the player? Basically, when I think of GW I think about playing a game and being entertained. Do other people feel that this virtual game is a financial investment of their time?

Not really sure what you are asking here. How long you had something is irrelevant. If it is worth gold it is because it has a a rare skin or is a fairly rare crafting material compared to its demand (say, ectoplasm or rubies). A monthly fee or not doesn't change any of that - scarcity is what makes something worth gold.

Bryant Again · Jun 21, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

A game "being so awesome that you need to pay to play it!" isn't a good mindset to have. Generally, MMO's require a monthly-fee to pay for server fees. In costs a lot of money to have a whole world, safe for a few areas, be non-instanced 24/7.

You're also more likely (NOT garunteed) to have a higher quality product, better techincal support, additional game content...lots.

Probably the best bit about it, though, is that you're paying for a larger staff. If having to pay a subscription fee would get more than one person working on the skill balances, then sign me up!

Enko · Jun 22, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by digimonizm

You don't know how wrong you are

Fist of the Big Dipper Super Battle Opera in Japan

StarCraft in Korea

Super Battle Opera in Japan SF3:Third Strike

sucks that guy got scv+marine rushed so early in a major gaming tournament. m

MrFuzzles · Jun 22, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I've nothing against pay-to-play as long as I'm having fun. $10-15 a month is change, and I could never understand why people get their panties in a twist over it.

Lineage 2 is working on their what, 6th, 7th expansion now? They've added tons of new areas, entire new leagues of gear, new skills, new advanced versions of every single profession, new pvp systems, new siege engines, and are going to add a new playable race and classes in the next update.

GW is a great game, but by the price of all 3 versions (and eotn), you could play a game using a subscribtion model like Lineage 2 or Eve online for half a year. Some of us will play GW for longer than that, others won't. In the end I feel the price/content ratio to be about the same.

The only real advantage of no monthly fees that I see is that you don't feel like you're "wasting time" by not playing the game for a period of time. But in the end, no big deal. If the game's worth whatever they're asking, I'll pay. It's not much more complicated than that.

bart · Jun 22, 2007, 03:33 AM // 03:33

I've always of the mindset that if it is a game that is great and i have fun i don't mind paying monthly fees. If there is a game out there that is as good as WoW in my eyes that does not require a monthly fee i would play that game for sure. Sadly GW is not that game.

Snorph · Jun 22, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

I dont know what people mean you have to pay for expansions for guildwars.

WoW did the samething. Burning Crusade.

I mean people think because you pay for something it's better, well that not always the case.

I think both are good games in their own ways. Their both different.

Me, I wouldn't pay a fee to play WoW. But thats just me. Although your not obligated to play WoW 2/47, however when you put alot into your char by leveling up, better armor and what not. It's almost as if you want/need to play in order to keep your char up to date.

I like GW for the simple reason being that I don't have to worry about going out of town for a vaction and paying for a month when in fact I am gone for a month I still have to pay.

I understand that you don't have to, and realize that you can signup anytime but I don't like that idea.

People say that WoW maybe better support because it's pay to play, but GW has been comming out with updates weekly, and are changing stuff in GW alot lately.

We talk about spamming and such, but every game like this you have the spammers, bot farmming and such.

So I really don't get what people are getting at.

I think most of us would agree that free play is better without having to worry month to month weather or not we can play or not.

For me, I wanted to enjoy a game like GW without paying to play a game.

I also got GW to play along with my friends around the world, which is the reason why I didn't go with WoW. For the reason being if I wanted to play along with my friends international I have to pay a fee to go on their server.

GW you goto the international servers and dont have to worry about paying for changing servers.

To me, in all honestly, WoW is like Microsoft, they charge for everything.

Not saying that all companies are perfect nor don't do it themselves but just simply pointing out.

Anyways just my thoughts. I hope and dont want too offend anyone that play GW or WoW. I think everyone has a choice.

I prefer free play.

strcpy · Jun 22, 2007, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

I've nothing against pay-to-play as long as I'm having fun. $10-15 a month is change, and I could never understand why people get their panties in a twist over it.

Mainly because I pay them for the right for me to create content. Content - in my mind, is the story and more role playing aspects of it. To some content is the various terrain tiles they most likely had a computer generate with thousands of the same mix of critters to go grind 80 levels out. There is no "game" other than what us - the players - create and we pay them monthly to do so. Most of what they do is an attempt to eat up as much time as possible (say, permanent death penalty). It irks me and I tend to get bored fairly fast doing the same thing over and over just to see a number get a little bigger.

While it varies as to its quality (some bad spots, some good spots, and all in between) you at least have a story in GW. The lore section of boards can be quite interesting. Of course, many - if not most - skip much of it and are confused (the vast majority of complaints are answered if they bothered to watch cut scenes and read quest dialog), but that is their choice to do so. Books generally suck too if you read the first few pages, a few in the middle, and the last five pages. Plus the landscapes tend to be a little more unique - though that isn't by that much either.

Quote:

Lineage 2 is working on their what, 6th, 7th expansion now? They've added tons of new areas, entire new leagues of gear, new skills, new advanced versions of every single profession, new pvp systems, new siege engines, and are going to add a new playable race and classes in the next update.

Lineage two is quite a bit older than GW (2003 release date whereas GW is 2005), nor did they make their expansions stand alones (which has now mostly been shown to not work as well as initially thought). I would also be curious if they have as many skills as GW (currently a few over 1500) and the need we have for balance in the PvP realms. The only MMO I've ever played that was anywhere near as worried about balance was Dark Age of Camelot - WoW and some of the others often cited have *NO* balance whatsoever. They are totally about who can grind out the best equipment (granted, to some that is both content and balance).

Quote:

GW is a great game, but by the price of all 3 versions (and eotn), you could play a game using a subscribtion model like Lineage 2 or Eve online for half a year. Some of us will play GW for longer than that, others won't. In the end I feel the price/content ratio to be about the same.

True, however you are forgetting the initial cost of those other games and their expansions. Typically the main game is around 50 (same as GW) and expansions are 30 (20 less) *plus* that monthly fee. While you can now get some of them cheaper - you can GW also. GW is significantly cheaper and it depends on you idea of content who has more. Even should they have done the every six month thing they originally set out to do it would have been quite a bit cheaper.

Quote:

The only real advantage of no monthly fees that I see is that you don't feel like you're "wasting time" by not playing the game for a period of time. But in the end, no big deal. If the game's worth whatever they're asking, I'll pay. It's not much more complicated than that.

Sure - I agree. Nor is GW a game model for everyone. Obviously many people love the grind of more traditional MMO's, love the feeling of getting that rare piece of equipment that out damages everything on the planet, and the host of other stuff GW does not do. It's not a smart ass response to tell someone they are better off in WoW (well, it can be, but that should be obvious by the tone of their writing). GW is not about becoming powerful, for many of us it is exactly what we were looking for - for someone who thinks that WoW is nirvana probably not.

Nor do I think that GW is affected much by the no monthly fee - they listen as much as any other game company (more than most in my experience), they fix bugs as fast or faster, and implement many changes wanted. Every game has a few majors that never get done (or get done quite late), everyone has people constantly ticked off by balances, and all the other nice rantings. As someone who doesn't care about balances (mostly PvE) it amusing to watch the complaints swap around (especially about HA team sizes) - I know I would detest the job of balancing skills as you could never do something right and the "community" is always going to hate you.

I do, however, feel that the no-monthly-fee attracts a higher percentage of, hmm, "entitlement seekers" is about the nicest thing I can say. You will never find more people that whine than when you give free stuff - and that is true in real life. I cook for some fairly large groups at a local gun and archery range that is affiliated with the state wildlife agency - for our pay tournaments you get maybe one or two gripers out of 50. For the state sponsored free ones you are lucky if you get by with as little as half or so whining and telling you how to do it. It has been that way there, here, in a church I was active in at one time, and a few other smaller events/places. At one time I would say it never ceased to amaze me, but as I get older it is something I just expect. I do not understand - one would think it would be the opposite, but it almost never works out that way.

Yanman.be · Jun 22, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

I paid nearly €200 for 25 months of fun. That's almost 10€ a month.

(50+70+70)

ilipol · Jun 22, 2007, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I paid nearly ???200 for 25 months of fun. That's almost 10??? a month.

(50+70+70)

That's probably because you bought the collector's editions...
I on the other hand bought the normal ones and it cost me ???80 (???26.5*3)

Actually for me it's not about the money ... I liked the feel of GW better and the storyline ( which in WoW for example is very loose ).

... to be honest though if I had to pay ???15 per month for a game I would want it to be more than "just better from the rest in just some areas".

Yanman.be · Jun 22, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Yeah I bought collector's and yes I bought them as soon as they hit the stores. I play GW y'know.

*Darcy* · Jun 22, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Costs for me (if I started a $15/mo P2P at the same time as GW):

Feb 2006-Jan 2007

GW= $50+$50+$50 = $150
P2P= $50+$180 = $230

Feb 2007- Jan 2008

GW= $40 (probable GW:EN price)
P2P= $50 (expansion) +$180 = $230

GW total = $190

P2P total = $460

____________________

But the problem with the OP quesiton is not just cost comparison, it's that you are comparing games with different goals and meant to give different playing experiences.

You might as well compare WoW and a P2P shooter or GW and a F2P shooter. It's not that one is better than the other, they just offer different goals and target different interests. They are all in competition for your on-line gaming time.

The fact that the F2P games also target a different income bracket does not automatically make them better or worse than P2P. It comes down to what you, the individual, consider quality gaming.

Jun 21, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35	#1
DirtyDirty Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2007 Profession: R/	Pay-2-Play vs FREE-play Question answered, TY Last edited by DirtyDirty; Jan 11, 2011 at 02:48 PM // 14:48.. Reason: answered

Jun 22, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40	#17
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	Costs for me (if I started a $15/mo P2P at the same time as GW): Feb 2006-Jan 2007 GW= $50+$50+$50 = $150 P2P= $50+$180 = $230 Feb 2007- Jan 2008 GW= $40 (probable GW:EN price) P2P= $50 (expansion) +$180 = $230 GW total = $190 P2P total = $460 ____________________ But the problem with the OP quesiton is not just cost comparison, it's that you are comparing games with different goals and meant to give different playing experiences. You might as well compare WoW and a P2P shooter or GW and a F2P shooter. It's not that one is better than the other, they just offer different goals and target different interests. They are all in competition for your on-line gaming time. The fact that the F2P games also target a different income bracket does not automatically make them better or worse than P2P. It comes down to what you, the individual, consider quality gaming. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Jun 21, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06	#2
Thomas.knbk Forge Runner Join Date: Jul 2006	Pay-to-play does have its advantages. Most importantly this: In a free play system, new content is offered with a pricetag attatched to it. Exeptions are there, like the SF update and PvE skills, but most of the new content (read: new skills) is offered in new chapters of $50. In a pay-to-play system, you don't need customers to buy a $50 expantion every few months, because your income comes from the monthly fees. New content (skills) are offered in free updates and patches in a pay-to-play system. Now think of this: in order to play PvP at a high level seriously, you NEED all the skills. Anet's marketing department might state otherwise, but in reality that is the case. You're severely limiting yourself if you don't. In a pay-to-play system, this means you buy the game for $50 and you have all the skills, and can start playing PvP immediately (exept for some things like unlocks). In the free-play system, the different skills are in different packages. This means to get all the skills, you need to make a starting investment of $150. This is a very big investment for a game you might not even like.

Jun 21, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28	#3
lazyrussian Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2007 Profession: D/	Pay to Play also has better customer service . The auction-spam in the local chat would not have lasted for as long as it did if GW was Pay-To-Play. Also, different MMORPG's have different thigns that appeal to people. I played everquest (EQ1) briefly in 2002. I liked it alot because their were 10+ races, 10+ classes and literally thousands of spells and the zones were massive - probably not as massive as some of the GW ones. The game was Pay-to-play but it lacked strategy - it became boring quickly. GW has a lot of strategy. Once GW2 comes out with new races - the level of skill and aptitude needed to play a good character (and still have fun) will greatly increase. This is why I like GW - a lot of planning (at higher levels) and a lot of cool combinations of skills. I mentioned in a different thread that I recently stumbled upon the A/N combination - I don't know if this is popular since I don't see many assassins - but here's a great example of why I like GW. Fast-Regenerating Mana for Assassins (4 pips) Health is Decent. Coupling Necro Hex spells with certain assassin spells (ones thatd o extra damage if the foe is hexed) + having daggers that deal more damage or lengthen bleeding (while the foe is hexed) makes the A/N a very fun, easy-on-the energy character. That's what I mean by combining skills and thinking of strategies. Though that is only on the basic level - but that's where my assassin is at the moment - LVL 11. Thats just my take on why some people play P2P v. F2P.

Jun 21, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43	#4
lazyrussian Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2007 Profession: D/	Lol it's the biggest waste of time for me, but after a full day of work, and enjoying my last free summer before my senior year of college, GW hits the pleasure-zone perfectly. A game is a game is a game. Nothing to take to seriously.

Jun 21, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21	#8
Bryant Again Hall Hero Join Date: Feb 2006	A game "being so awesome that you need to pay to play it!" isn't a good mindset to have. Generally, MMO's require a monthly-fee to pay for server fees. In costs a lot of money to have a whole world, safe for a few areas, be non-instanced 24/7. You're also more likely (NOT garunteed) to have a higher quality product, better techincal support, additional game content...lots. Probably the best bit about it, though, is that you're paying for a larger staff. If having to pay a subscription fee would get more than one person working on the skill balances, then sign me up!

Jun 22, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30	#10
MrFuzzles Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Profession: D/	I've nothing against pay-to-play as long as I'm having fun. $10-15 a month is change, and I could never understand why people get their panties in a twist over it. Lineage 2 is working on their what, 6th, 7th expansion now? They've added tons of new areas, entire new leagues of gear, new skills, new advanced versions of every single profession, new pvp systems, new siege engines, and are going to add a new playable race and classes in the next update. GW is a great game, but by the price of all 3 versions (and eotn), you could play a game using a subscribtion model like Lineage 2 or Eve online for half a year. Some of us will play GW for longer than that, others won't. In the end I feel the price/content ratio to be about the same. The only real advantage of no monthly fees that I see is that you don't feel like you're "wasting time" by not playing the game for a period of time. But in the end, no big deal. If the game's worth whatever they're asking, I'll pay. It's not much more complicated than that.

Jun 22, 2007, 03:33 AM // 03:33	#11
bart Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005	I've always of the mindset that if it is a game that is great and i have fun i don't mind paying monthly fees. If there is a game out there that is as good as WoW in my eyes that does not require a monthly fee i would play that game for sure. Sadly GW is not that game.

Jun 22, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01	#12
Snorph Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Riverside,Ca Guild: Kings Of Heaven And Earth Profession: E/Me	I dont know what people mean you have to pay for expansions for guildwars. WoW did the samething. Burning Crusade. I mean people think because you pay for something it's better, well that not always the case. I think both are good games in their own ways. Their both different. Me, I wouldn't pay a fee to play WoW. But thats just me. Although your not obligated to play WoW 2/47, however when you put alot into your char by leveling up, better armor and what not. It's almost as if you want/need to play in order to keep your char up to date. I like GW for the simple reason being that I don't have to worry about going out of town for a vaction and paying for a month when in fact I am gone for a month I still have to pay. I understand that you don't have to, and realize that you can signup anytime but I don't like that idea. People say that WoW maybe better support because it's pay to play, but GW has been comming out with updates weekly, and are changing stuff in GW alot lately. We talk about spamming and such, but every game like this you have the spammers, bot farmming and such. So I really don't get what people are getting at. I think most of us would agree that free play is better without having to worry month to month weather or not we can play or not. For me, I wanted to enjoy a game like GW without paying to play a game. I also got GW to play along with my friends around the world, which is the reason why I didn't go with WoW. For the reason being if I wanted to play along with my friends international I have to pay a fee to go on their server. GW you goto the international servers and dont have to worry about paying for changing servers. To me, in all honestly, WoW is like Microsoft, they charge for everything. Not saying that all companies are perfect nor don't do it themselves but just simply pointing out. Anyways just my thoughts. I hope and dont want too offend anyone that play GW or WoW. I think everyone has a choice. I prefer free play.

Jun 22, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23	#14
Yanman.be Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [ROSE] Profession: A/	I paid nearly €200 for 25 months of fun. That's almost 10€ a month. (50+70+70)

Jun 22, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56	#16
Yanman.be Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [ROSE] Profession: A/	Yeah I bought collector's and yes I bought them as soon as they hit the stores. I play GW y'know.